Give him a medal 509

There are several subjects here. There are questions of ethnicity versus nationality versus heritage. There are also simple locational definitions and the level of depth thereof.

IF, and it's a pretty big "if," Ivor is not complete arseclown, I suspect that he is clinging to a very specific, provable point that he will reveal in triumph when he feels fit. He's very careful not to reveal what HE thinks he IS (other than his nationality), deciding only to keep butterting what he is NOT. A certain tactic to get people fired up, which is probably the whole idea. Such intransigence in the face of such obvious "proof" does not square with somebody's description of him as "intelligent and reasonable." So, what we have here, gentlemen, is a cunning plan designed to make Ivor feel good and you lot to feel angry. Until I come along and f*** it all up, of course.

To address the many subjects we must think of some examples and play with them. A man, for instance, with an Irish, Caucasian father, a Somalian, negro mother, born in Argentina (whilst the parents were on holiday) and living (raised) in England.

Forget the where-you-were-born argument from Ivor, it's a red-herring, designed to infuriate. This man may mention that he was born in Argentina, he may even use it to secure an Argentinean visa at some point when it suits him, but he's not going to suddenly start speaking Spanish or liking soccer simply because he was born in Argentina.

This man's ethnicity will be Negro (funny how a wee tint of black is enough to make one black, even if it's only an eighth!), though he may legitimately claim to be of Caucasian stock. I'm afraid his looks will be against him in this endeavour, though.

Now to heritage: This man may well claim to be Irish or Somalian. It's probably something he will decide for himself later in life. He will probably live his life with a combination of the two, participating in what he feels are the best traits from both.

His nationality will be British, although, given the fact that where we are has a distinct influence on how we conduct ourselves, he will probably act and sound English. This is true of most people that are raised in the UK, they will refer to themselves as English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish, only being British when the Lions are playing.

So, on to our locational definitions. This is simply where one is at the moment and how you might be referred to as a group (the breadth of the sample dictating the term used). Ivor, If there were exit doors at a location with signs on them saying, "Africans, Europeans, South Americans, etc.." and, in order to go through them, you actually have to qualify as such, would you stay in the building in perpetuity, or would you go through the door that most closely resembled your circumstances? In your case, Ivor, that'd be the "European" door (unless, as I say, you're waiting to deliver the big plantshell of info that will have us all gasping at your Žlan). If a website, wanting to attract business from Europe, put up an offer saying, "40% off for all European customers," would you insist on paying full price, even though you qualify because of where you live? Does your intransigence extend to that sort of stupidity?

From what I can gather, Ivor is of Welsh decent on his father's side (I don't know about his mother) and there is nothing on his ethnicity (I suspect that this is where his wee trick will spring from. Ivor, what is your ethnicity?). He lives in England and considers himself English. That's all cool. Yet he has this rabid obsession with not being European. Maybe he thinks it's a silly term, one that has little meaning. After all, how can a ginger, alabaster Irishman, living in Cork be the "same" as a swarthy Greek, living in Athens. They can't of course, they're nothing like one another. But they do live in the same place, if one wishes to refer to that part of the world for any particular reason. I got the impression that Ivor is quite advanced in years and was around before the UK became part of the EEC. Maybe those petty prejudices make it difficult for him to accept being clbutted as European. I don't blame him, there's no way I want to be clbutted as being the same as the f***ing Frogs. But, as far as where you live, Ivor, that's Europe, mate, and anyone who wants to refer to the people that live there, will call them Europeans; and that, quite correctly, includes you. It's just where you live.