The dangers of DRLs 4621

Buick has won quality awards for the past few years. That is already known. Generally the cars are quite good, I agree.

Of course they should be interested. Expecially if it is prefereced with the condition that needs to exist for that the person to buy the car.

I've got really great kids, worked for them. Two-three years ago my daughter approached me and told me how often she hated me growing up. She said; "Thanks so much Dad. All my friends are into nasty stuff, irresponsible, in debt up to their eyeballs and many are still living with "daddy". Daddy just gives them stuff because that aren't able to make it. Here I completed my degree in 4-years, married, own a single family house, no debt and doing better than any of them....and I'm only 22! I couldn't have done it with other parents I know." After I wiped the tears from my eyes, that moment was so worth it all. So, results seem to say otherwise What really amazed me was that I was expecting to have to help them get into their house...thay never even approached me for help. Now that is something really special (at least I think it is)

You are not one of those Dr. Spock parents, are you? We all know how those kids of his turned out (and those of his followers)...YIKES!

10% equates to a lot of sales. Remember, only 1-2% of disatisfied customers statistically bother to complain...at least that was our training when I worked retail back in the 70's. For each one complaint, there are 100-200 more that you didn't hear from.

You really need to toughen up that hyde a bit. When you make derogatory statements just because someone is in a certain profession, I question your concept of "civil".

Yes, you are very civil...and with such cute names attached as well. Very nice.

I'm sure some won't buy because of them. I know several people that have stopped buying GM's (most in my family, but some at the office too) because of DRLs. A car can still have record sales without the anti-DRL crowd buying them by simply attracting a large number of the remaining market segment. So, no there is not a correlation from that single data point (sales number).

I'm glad you are as amused as the rest of us then.

Huh? Did you miss all the other items several people mentioned?

I didn't say they didn't.

Most truckers appreciate a courtesy signal that it's clear and okay before coming over. You can tell that by the "thank you" signal (tail light flashing twice) they return once they have come over into your lane in front of you. So apparently, they intrepret the signal just fine and are appreciative of the courtesy...not enraged at all.

I accept your observation. I don't have information that would be any different from your observation.

Changing the subject. Yes, there are many areas of waste. Those other areas are not part of the topic of discussion. And waste in one place hardly justifies ignoring waste in another. Reducing waste nees to begin somewhere. This is one of the DRL issues you say doesn't exist. Hopefully the eventual mandatory implementations will utilize more energy conserving technologies. LED's seem to hold quite a bit of promise in that area. They solve two issues. Energy consmption and lamp longetivity.

Yes I suppose you're right. My guess is your numbers are exagerated a bit to the low side and the numbers I provided are more accurate in comarison.

Here is one site if that helps. There are a few others on file that have similar results.

That is probably about right, based on EPA ratings I've seen for the same cars with the the two different transmission types. I believe the 1997 Neon Sport my wife used to have was rated 39 highway (it was a 5-speed). She usually got about what it as rated for. The sister version with the automatic was rated 36 or 37 highway (if memory serves me). Plus that little guy would make it to 60 is just over 7 seconds. Surprisingly peppy for a cheap $10K car (at the time).

That is quite probably true. It's probably more than two 55 watt bulbs as well. But waste anywhere is waste, in the final analysis.

I didn't claim anything additional except that we are free to disagree on the topic. Having said that, no more discussion is needed, is it? Not even the eleven states I have visited over the years (not many, admittedly)

So, I am a alcoholic now. I don't even drink wine or beer, so incorrect again (what a surprise).

The topic of discussion is DRLs (and auto light control), not GM. These devices just so happen to be on GM vehicles. It wouldn't matter in the least what brand of car they were on. The brand could be Ford or Chrysler, for all I care. If Ford or Chrysler had them (and I don't have full control over them), I'm not going to buy their product either. But that has been stated before. I'm not sure why you can't decouple two distinctly separate and unrelated things.

I could easily say the same back.

Since this is tied to the general weather question we just agree to disagree on, the point is moot anyway.

You are right. I read it wrong.

Yes, when the delay trigger was met immediately. True.

I don't blame you. You shouldn't

Not a problem. I was wondering about that, actually.

There must be some way both requirements can be satisfied. For example, on the GM large trucks, one can cycle the dome light 4 times (on-off-on-off) and that will signal the BCM to completely disable the DRLs AND the auto headlamps...but only for that one ignition cycle. That set up maintains what you desire...the next time one starts the vehicle, it's back in auto mode. That allows for the other circumstances when lights are not needed as well. It's probably available on trucks because how they're used (construction sites, farms, field work, etc.) where they may be running-idling quite a bit and lights may not be required...or lights may be a safety hazard from glare etc. of workers in close proximity.

I never said "failure". I said sales numbers were poor. The last I looked that model hadn't even sold 3000 units. Of course ~6000 still isn't all that great. I think my 67 model had 67K (maybe more) in sales. That's 10 times sales this year...and that was almost 40 years ago. Making DRLs options instead of mandates won't make a success out ot it, but it will bring in some additional percentage of sales, I'm sure.

He said "destabalize". Control isn't lost if the maneuver has reliably provided the added directional control (and the operative word is control) that was required for the avoidance maneuver. Nate's maneuver would work.

I guess it is...since it does work. Even if you follow your logic of explaining Nate's maneuver (control was momentarily lost and then regained). If one reliably regains during that manuever, control was not really ever lost in the first place since the intended result of avoidance was acheived as expected.

Have you ever seen those driver compebreastions where one of the tasks is to run the car up to a parrallel parking space and skid around 360 degrees into the space. The better the driver aligns the car in the marked off space wins that part of the competion. Well, the skid "appears" quite out of control. But if the driver puts the car where it belongs...it's hard to say he didn't really have control, can you?

If you say so.

And the conclusions derived are based on what? Since I've manages to avoid quite a few mishapes why ths conclusion?

I'm surious about something. You've stated here that the preferred beaking methos, even on non-ABS systems is to mash the brake. Not you're saying perople don't have the balls to "get off the brake".

Thousands of people negiotiate that hill by the office on snowy mornings just fine (some don't). The majority must be "getting off the brake as nedded to maintain enough control to make it through or there would be a hell of a lot more accidents there (especially if thay took your advise and "mashed the brake".

Did you forget what you read in my reference link again?

How it is nonsense?

So ABS aren't effective on some of the most common vehicles on the road? Is that what you're saying?

Yes, I'm lying. You've figured it out.

Not suprising.

I haven' judged your driving at all. The word "maniac" (and many others) came from the keyboard of the other person in this discussion, not me.

I did. They had the required hours of professional instruction, Both the wife and I completed the mandatory driving log (which is quite a fe w more hours of vaious types of driving). You do have the ability to understand that more there an be more than one instructor. Plus, I looked over the instructional materials.

Then I believe we agree...we were in two different contexts.

And the obstacle you are trying to avoid in front of you dictates that you'd better not stay in that straight-line-wheel-lock-skid.

It isn't al all complicated. Donce it hundreds of times over the years. Why do you think that common situation is so complicated?

Yes, ABS will do better in curves (at the limits, as you say). I agree.

However, the added ability ABS provides apparently isn't necessary (or needed) if ABS systems are not statistically reducing accident rates. What this seems to say (but I will defer to the experts studying this that don't even know yet) is that the lesser ability of what human beings are able to do in that situation is *good enough* to where they are able to maintain control in as many cases (statistically) as human beings with ABS do. But, we'll know some day when the highway safety experts work through what is going on.

So far the 89 years of combined driving experience of the people I mentioned doesn't indicate otherwise? Not sure what arrogance has to do with anything though. If the statistics indicate that that likelihood of "paying the price" is of zero difference betwen the two, how is arrogance factored in?

Well, I can hardly wait for this first time experience. I will keep a extra pair of undies in the car for just such a occasion. Since the statistics indicate that I have no more likelyhood of being in the sutuation you describe, no matter which type of brake system I have, forgive me if I don't hold my breath in anticipation.

And can you explain both of their driving records. Oh, that's right, our Fairy Godmother likes us more that yours does.. I forgot...it isn't that they drive very well.

Then we actually agree, it seems

Yes, quite likely. I believe I said that.

I can live with that, snce,you're likely correct.

I have admitted several times when I don't possess enough knowledge on a particular topic to discuss it. Where have you been?