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The selfrighteous LLB buttociation of Virginia 2805

The selfrighteous LLB buttociation of Virginia 2812
Speeders are every bit in close proximity to cars -- and in fact to an even gtreater number of variable drivers -- as or than someone who is simply keeping pace witht he flow...

It doesn't require clarivoyance. Such abilities are easily demonstrate given elementary observation skills and simple deduction. For example, the car ahead and to the right of you is catching up to the vehicle in front of it ... what do I think he's going to do? Drive off the shoulder and subsequently get abducted by aliens, or switch lanes in front of you? It's not that hard to figure out.

Hardly. If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it isn't a cow.

The selfrighteous LLB buttociation of Virginia 2807
Just when you thought I gave up on the thread ... :) No, he's not safe. He has no room to move side to side and has left the tractor...

Traffic volumes aren't that much different over there as opposed to here. In fact, they may be heavier. Still that doesn't mean we should continue to ignore the source of the problems on our highways by saying "we're different; we can't change."

Like we've discussed before, chosen speed doesn't define whether a driver is safe or not. Sure, a driver's speed may fall within the 10 mph interval, but if he's camped out in the left lane next to a tractor-trailer, he's not safe by any reasonable definition of the word. OTOH, a driver going 15 mph faster than the truck would be safer since he ends up in front in clear of the dangerous clump of traffic forming around the truck due to relative lack of speed differential.

If a deer jumps out onto the road, the faster driver should easily be able to use multiple lanes in an effort to swerve around it. The pack of traffic behind him doesn't have that option since they're all in close proximity to each other. Though they were going 15 mph slower, they end up in a multi-vehicle crash because they lacked the necessary space to steer around an obstacle. The vehicle's further back in the pack can't even see far enough ahead to react in time.

IIRC, around 55 to 60 mph (posted 55 mph four-lane divided highway with at grade intersections).

I'm sure bad things would happen if I happened to be pbutting him at a 1 mph differential as well. The less time you spend in proximity to another vehicle, the lower the liklihood of being involved in a crash.

And again, it's not just speed that defines a safe driver.

AFAICT, most people don't

Germany and the UK are not Utopia. They're located in the same reality that we are. All it would take would be to change the enforcement structure so that actual driving habits, rather than just speed is considered when evaluating a driver.

Removing the fine structure and buttessing only demerit points would go a long way toward removing the financial incentive of enforcing arbitrary laws. Either the emphasis would go towards traffic enforcement that actually addresses safety issues, or, if traffic enforcement levels drop off, reveal that law enforcement doesn't give a poo about traffic safety

The selfrighteous LLB buttociation of Virginia 2808
Arif Khokar Actually I was hoping you wouldn't! ;-( So? That is an entirely different matter from being "un"safe. There are thousands of...

I shouldn't have to be concerned when a deer doesn't cross the highway where the deer crossing sign is, but that doesn't mean I don't keep an eye out for them. On a more serious note, I shouldn't have to be concerned about cross traffic when I have a green light, but that doesn't mean I should not be concerned about looking both ways before and as I cross the intersection.

The same principle applies in the original example. The person going 40 mph faster could be a police officer.

The selfrighteous LLB buttociation of Virginia 2806
Arif Khokar You missed the point. Intuition, experience, deduction.... All of these help you out in *many* circumstances such as the ones you and I both described, but...

The problem is that people don't practice MSM.

The selfrighteous LLB buttociation of Virginia 2809
Garth Almgren Not doubtful at all in this discussion, as we have been using "speeder" to...

Ever driven up a 6% grade with tractor-trailers?

The selfrighteous LLB buttociation of Virginia 2811
Depends on what you mean by "crowded". If you mean "bumper to bumper", no. But in conditions which are slightly less heavy...

It depends. While 5 percent will be going up to 5 mph faster than the 85th percentile speed, that number drops to 1 percent when considering the next 5 mph interval.

To clarify, I really don't drive much more than 15 mph faster than the rest of traffic most of the time. I do occasionally go up to 25 mph faster on a few occasions when traffic is quite sparse (which isn't that rare in this area given traffic volumes).

IMO, they are stupid. When they encounter an obstacle, they have nowhere to swerve. Clumping should not occur with moderate traffic volumes. When traffic volumes get heavy enough such that there isn't enough room to move back to the right lane, then traffic would be a constant stream. Clumps imply that there are substantial sections of utilized roadway between the clumps.

They are endangering themselves and those around them.

The selfrighteous LLB buttociation of Virginia 2810
I think that other fellow's purpose is merely to troll for response; he's shown no interest in actual discussion. " oh contrare.... long detailed discourse.... but basically my view is that it's not proximity...

Then why did you agree with Larry's buttessment near the start of the thread?




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